ran returns from deportation, it would bo very well before he is brought up to be tried for this that the opinion of the Attorney-General should be taken as to whether the warrant was legally good, of course, where the opinion was that it was not legal I have not been able to order the man to be tried for returning. With respect to the Superintendent of the Prison, there have been only three prisoners rocom- mended since I have come hero, whom I have not deported, and those cases are briefly these The first is the prisoner Lee Hum Kwai. He was recommended for release by Captain Ducat for his services at the time of the Yesso explosion. Subsequently he proved very useful as inter. preter in Captain Dempster's time, and he was again recommended. Well, iu that case I have not been able to discharge the prisoner from gaol, and therefore cannot deport him. That is the first of the three. With respect to the other cases there were two men who were recom- mended for deportation, and one was a man who was in prison for uttering counterfeit coin, the other for larceny. They were
recom-
ended to me to be deported, and the ground was that the men were in very bad health-His Ex- cellency went on to read the minutes on the cases and the medical reports called for on the health of the prisoners, from which it appearod they had only a few weeks to serve and that they were not likely to live out their teran. He did not deport the men, but recommended them to the Tang Wah Hospital, where he believed
they died. His Excellency proceeded-I bare
giren you then the three cases in which I da. clinet deportation, and I think you will all agree with the action I took in regard to them. Lee Lam Kwai is still in prison. As regards the other two, the prisoners were not of that desperate class that it is desirable to get rid of. On the subject of deportation itself I think there is not a second opinion in the Council; indeed, if we could deport every prisoner that would be a so- lution of the whole question, but it really comes to this. and I think the Acting Chief Justice touched upon it to-day, what do you do with a man when he comes back f. Let us now select from the 530 prisoners in gaol at this moment a couple of hundred of the worst offenders and deport then; the problem is, what are you to do with them when they come back? Well, the Acting Chief Justice says they must be punished with severity when they come back, and another of my hou. friends would like to have them flogged on their return. Well, the Conncil is aware the flogging of the deported prisoners on return was tried, but bad to be discontinued. In fact when it was [discovered, when Sir John Swale aud Sir Julian Pauncefote drew attention to the fact that this illegal punishment bad been going on, a dispatch was prepared in which the Governor, Sir Richard MacDounell, songht for that power, but it was refused. The Government would not consent that a man returning from de- portation should be flogged for that offence alone. If on his return he commits another offence he may be sentenced by the Magistrate or the Supreme Court, but you must make up your minds that the Government will not consent to a man being flogged simply for returning fron deportation. My hon. friend the Colonial Secretary has told us it is not usual to apply deportation unless the man has a second or third offence.-His Excellency went on to refer to a case which occurred the other day which the most experienced member of the Executive Council did not think was * £ase for deportation, bat it so happened the three other members differed with his hon. friend, and although he (the Governor) quite agreed with the Colonial Secretary's view of the matter he acted on the view of the majority who thought it was. His Excellency con. elnded-It is well for you if you have to take into consideration the question of gaol #xpense to take into consideration also these things. It requires a knowledge of all these things to enable you or to enable me to arrive at a safe conclusion on this general quos- tion. However, gentlemen, if it is convenient for you next Thursday I think we might perhaps go into this question, and I shall possibly put before you the result of the commission. I refor to, Dr. Wells and Dr. O'Brien.
It having been suggested that Thursday would be an inconvenient day to meet, Monday was suggested by His Excelloney.
Hon. H. LowCock-This is such a broad question, your Excellency, that it cannot be dealt with and settled before the estimates are passed. There is no doubt the separate system will meet the views of the whole community, but
with reference to the enlargement of the gaol or its removal, that embraces so many questions that of course it would be impossible to settle it for some time. Therefore, I think the discussion on that might be postponed until after the passing of the estimates, unless you wish it continued for some particular reason.
His EXCELLENCY-I don't at all contemplate making this part of the estimates, but at the same time I should really like to have the members of the Council oxpress in as reasonable a time as possible their views on this question. Of course hon, members are acquainted with the fact that i I entered on this subject soon after my arrival, į and I should like to have the views of hon. mem- bors upon it. I shall be glad to afford you what ever further information you would like to obtain, and if it occurs to you between this and Monday that there is soy further information you would like. I will see that any further dispatch or anything you like to ask for shall be laid before you.
Hon. W. KESWICK-In considering the num her of prisoners we ha e o provide for I would suggest that we should go back to the year 1800 and get a return of the number of prisoners who have been in gnol, the number who have been released before the form of their sentonces expired, and what unbibor have been deported. Statistics aro importaut; let us have them in order that we may judge whe ther we have to look forward to an unlimited extension of gaol accommodation to keep down the criminal class; and, as I mentioned earlier in the discussion, I understand last year it was decided that the separate system was to be tried in the gaol, and if my recollection serves me right there was a vote for that purpose.
Hon. H. Lowcock-$10,000,
Hon. W. KESWICK-I should like to know if there is any data on which we can form an opi- nion of the effect of the system.
His EXCELLENCY-There is no data on that precise point. Mr. Price has built a few cells, but the number is insufficient to furnish data, and you know what Sir Michael Hicks-Beach said. I had to take the responsibility of de- eiding whether we would go on with the cells wo wore making. I decided that we would go on. The result, however, np to this time wa hare in fact not had any opportunity of testing. The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-May I ask if any estimate has been formed of the value of the present gaol sito P
His EXCELLENCY-Mr. Price has formed an estimate. but unfortunately I have not got the figuras with me now. It is a very valuable site. Hon. W. KESWICK- must remark I don't sce very clearly the object of the discussion.
His EXCELLENCY-I have no hesitation in answering my hon. friend very frankly. If we Jeet next Monday every member will express his opinion. I hope. I have already heard a great doul of sonad advice and the more I hear the better. I think it better to do all this before. because otherwise what course am I to take? Sir Michael Hicks-Beach asks me for my opinion after consulting with Mr. Price. Suppose I write in answer to this dispatch "I have, in cordance with your instructions, cousulted Mr. Price" and proceed to express an opinion; my opinion, if it is worth anything, will, I think, be much more valuable if we have a complete dis- cussion on the subject.
Hon. W. Keswick--We cannot properly dis. cass this subject unless we know the probable cost. We may all quite agree it would be a vory nice thing to have a gaol out of town, and various other things which are quite irapracticable; but what we have to consider, in ny view, is that the criminal class is a certainty. Are we as practical men, with money which we taust not spond heedlessly-how are we to deal with it. I think we should see something like the cost of the two schemes. As to $45,000 baying the land between the present gaol and Caius-road, of course it is simply an error of judg. ment on the part of some one. The value of the site no one can question. If this question has to be considered it should not be considered simply as to the prisoners, whether it would be better for them to be at Stonecutter's Island. We have to consider whether the money to be expended would be better expended at Stonecutter's Island or hero, or whether by a differont system of gaol discipline and of punishment generally we could not do without it altogether.
His EXCELLENCY-Itwas just before the meet- ing that the Colonial Surgeon called and told me Mr. Price was ill; otherwise these figures could have been before you. But you will bear in mind
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